If the average person can not use your OS, it is not ready. Period.
For example:
Windows - Open File Explorer > Add Network Drive > Find/plug it in > Enter creds > Bam. Ready to go and will automatically log you in at boot. Very nice, very intuitive UI.
Linux - Open Dolphin (or whatever) > Network > Add Network Folder/Find it > Enter creds > Does not automatically mount the drive when booting the computer back up > Must go into fstab to get it to automount > Stop, because that is ridiculous
In my own experience, I was able to get the hang of Windows with no one showing me how a computer ever worked, at the age of 10! Intuitive enough a child can do it.
On Linux, you have to read manuals/documentation, ask random (mostly rude) people on the internet, or give up because why the fuck would I want to go and enter 5 commands just to have something as simple as auto mount a network share? Not intuitive, therefore not easy to learn as you go.
I get it, Linux people like knowing how their computers operate, they like ensuring everything is working the way THEY want to, and that’s awesome! What’s not awesome is recommending Linux to the general populace and then getting upset at them for asking why they can’t do something or why don’t they just do these steps to do whatever it is they are having issues with. Then, you have a person who doesn’t even know what a terminal is confused as hell because they were told Linux is so much better than Windows.
Until we get a more intuitive (GUI focused) way of doing what I would consider normal computer tasks, it will not ever be ready. That’s just the way I see it.
the average person doesnt know how to mount a drive on windows or even what that is or why you would want to, they just need to be able to open a browser
Very good point!
Example 2:
I need to drag this file into my browser to upload it to the website I’m visiting for whatever reason. I’m an average user that has only ever really needed a browser. My OS came with Firefox, but when I try to drag the file onto my browser window like I’ve always done, nothing happens. Is my computer broken?
No, it’s installed as a snap/flatpak that doesn’t have the “privileges” to do that, and I will never know that since I’m an average user who only needs a browser.
clicking the browse button to select the file is a hell of a lot easier than opening the file manager, navigating your way through your files to find the one specific one, then make both windows small so you can select a file in one, and drag it over to the other.
And look, its also an example of how you turn nothing into a big, complicated, multistep imaginary issue.
you don’t need to make the windows, just alttab while dragging. and maybe you already have open the directory in another window so why browse there again in the browser’s file picker.
probably not a big deal, but definitely not a small issue either
Your second example is a newish problem and Ubuntu specific. I had never had a problem with drag-and-drop and I migrated from Ubuntu before the snap thing.
You will always find an example of something that works “better” in one OS than other. Linux is not trying to be a windows drop-in replacement, some thing are gonna behave differently. Linux have some problems for an average user but a lot is just different UX design and others, especially hardware compatibility is because companies don’t care for it to work on Linux so the OS is always playing catch up.
A lot of “beginner friendly” distros are Ubuntu based though, so while not strictly requiring you to use snaps, it might install Firefox as a flatpak though, which doesn’t have the privileges to do drag and drop when I last used a flatpak based browser.
You can correct me if I am wrong of course, as I truly don’t know if it is still a thing or if I just installed the flatpak. I didn’t understand the limitations back then.
Flatseal helps with managing flatpak perms, but yeah it’s not at all intuitive
Right, but we are talking about the average user. One who only needs a browser. They wouldn’t even think about flatpak/snap/appimage, and would probably look at you like you are insane if you said those in the same sentence as “Your browser is a flatpak/snap/appimage, so it doesn’t have the permissions it needs to allow drag and drop”.
If the average user
Proceeds to describe a task average users never perform.
And no, you having been a smart child doesn’t excuse you being an obtuse adult.
Meanwhile my experience with automounting network drives with dolphin is
Open Dolphin > Add Network Folder > Enter creds > Check automount box > done
I haven’t had to use the terminal for anything in years. There’s some things I do in the terminal, but that’s because I like it better, not because there isn’t an intuitive way to do it.
The reason guides tell people to use the terminal is because it’s the same across DEs, not because there aren’t DEs that make it more intuitive.
Would I throw a random non techy friend on Linux? No, because it’s not what they’re used to. If they had no computer experience at all though I absolutely would.
No automount check box on openSUSE, my Linux OS.
Also, we’re talking average users here, not some techy people who at least understand the differences between the OS and the file manager they use.
Also, we’re talking average users here
Ah yes, the average user who deals with mounting hard disk partitions all the time…
What DE do you use? KDE Partition Manager has a setting for it.
I use KDE!
I’ve looked into this before , so in all seriousness, what options would I choose to make it auto mount without asking for a password?
I see the box for no automatic mount, but I don’t see one that is for auto mounting? I’m assuming the don’t prevent boot… option is pretty self explanatory.
Yeah these were the default settings but it’s what I would leave it at. I chose /mnt/data just for an example but that’s not a bad spot for it either.
After clicking OK it asked if I wanted to let it modify fstab to allow auto mounting. So this should just accomplish what you’re looking for I believe.
So, I looked into KDE PM, and I guess it would have been more helpful to explain that these drives were made on Windows, and has data that I can not afford to move into a new drive at this moment. So in the mean time I am trying to work between Windows and Linux when one doesn’t do what I’m needing in the moment.
When I double click the ntfs partition in the window, it brings up a partition properties window. At the bottom of this window, I can see the flags section. One is “bios-grub” and the other is “boot”. If I tick the boot option, will that make it auto mount?
if you want to access NTFS partitions on linux, you should turn off “fast startup” in windows. control panel, energy saving, “choose what the power button does” menu. (so intuitive, eh?)
when that’s ticked in, it will always just hibernate the system after logging out, and that’s a nono, and a big one if dualbooting (even just 2 windowses)
Fractional Scaling (Done)
Can you please tell my computer that? 😄
This isn’t really how this format works but ok
everyone in the comments is talking about linux, not a single comment about how this meme format is used exactly wrong
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Proton the gaming tool
Unless computer companies include Linux with their PC’s, it will never get general adoption.
No average user will follow instructions on how to boot Linux distro installer, especially when there are multiple steps needed to do so, such as on UEFI systems.
NvidiaGPU working
what world do you live in? I have even newer driver than that and it’s still buggy!
Hah. I just saw this on the back of some other guy berating me for complaining that Steam exploded when trying to get it to acknowledge Steam libraries on NTFS drives. I’ll stop complaining the moment my stuff works.
But hey, I hear my HDR monitors are supposed to have stopped artifacting out on the latest Nvidia drivers I installed last week, so if I ever get Steam to work again maybe I can give that another try and see if I can scratch that one from my routine.
Meh, never mind me. I’m just cranky from all the troubleshooting. I really thought I had this down semi-permanently a couple weeks ago.
HDR isn’t all that great for gaming yet, in my opinion. It takes too much tweaking just to get it working, because apparently games/proton still aren’t able to natively pass that metadata to Wayland?
Running every applicable game or all of Steam through Gamescope brings its own problems with how it handles the window, so I end up never using it at all. I just want it to be as simple as it is on Windows, man! 😩
Also, VRR seems to make my screen flicker at an unnoticeably-high-but-still-irritating rate at random whenever I alt+tab, never figured that out yet…
Finally, I do wish there was a simpler, more paint.net-like editor rather than GIMP, and I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, but otherwise basically every thing on that list of features works well enough for me.
It certainly sounds like wayland is just about ripe. Any DE recommendations for a lifelong XFCE enjoyer like myself?
KDE. It’s working very well with Wayland. I’ve been using both on my daily driver for a year now and it’s come a long way since then. It was still a bit rough in the beginning but now I can’t see myself going back. It’s pretty polished.
I’m not a Linux noob, but I’ve been out of the scene for a few years.
Recently tried debian with KDE and Wayland on a modern PC with a 3060. Just a default install.
My mouse could barely track across the screen, it was very choppy and stuttered like crazy.
This was in the last 6 months. I got it fixed by switching to a different compositor, but I shouldn’t have had to do that. Even then I found YouTube to be super laggy.
It’s just not ready.
well it’s again more about nvidia driver for wayland u need manually do some tweaks such as https://github.com/CachyOS/CachyOS-Settings/blob/master/usr/lib/modprobe.d/nvidia.conf
I’m glad there are ways to get it working, and thank you for sharing it, but this doesn’t qualify as “it just works, why are you idiots not switching from Windows when Linux just works”.
This is directly why a lot of people don’t take the arguments that Linux is ready for the average user seriously.
opensuse leap has those settings by default. and people say it’s not beginner friendly…
KDE or Gnome.
“Nvidia GPU working”
If the driver feels like it, lol.
HDR with an Nvidia GPU?
What about VRR on mutli-monitor setups?
It works now.
The “extra steps” didn’t make it work for me sadly. I actually tried referencing this thread for solutions a little while ago too, but no luck 😕
This dude is using it without problems. https://lemm.ee/post/55423985/18232530
The fact is, if my favourite game doesn’t run on Linux, Linux is dead to me.
Similarly to some software that has no direct alternatives.
Which sucks.
His favorite game Is always one that doesn’t work on Linux /s
Linux devs will NEVER suffer kernel level anticheat, so all games that require it will refuse to run. This is more of a problem with gaming industry culture at large, really. But it’s still only going to affect people who use Linux at the end of the day.
Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I’d be willing to deal with the downsides of Linux, provided the very core things I do on a PC works. But I have a few things that I have very little wiggle room on.
That wouldn’t be a problem for me if it weren’t for the dual boot issues… I could easily switch to windows when I feel like gaming but no way I’m going to risk bricking my windows installation by installing Linux… Feels like an conspiracy lol when there’s a safe way to dual boot let me know
The real problem for me is that there’s nothing Windows can’t do for me that Linux can. So even with a dual-boot setup I just get too lazy to switch, and end up using Windows exclusively.
there’s nothing Windows can’t do for me that Linux can
Linux can keep your data away from Microsoft
I’m capable of doing that myself, thanks.
No, you absolutely cannot, if you use Windows.
No, YOU cannot. I can, as well as many other people can. You’re just displaying your IT illiteracy.
Idk, I think it’s pretty unlikely “many other people” are modifying and using LTSC edition Windows for personal use.
Based on your interactions with others, it seems like you’re feeling attacked here, so I don’t necessarily expect a reply but thought I’d ask anyway– What changes have you made to enable what you’re describing?
Please. You have no idea what my IT literacy is. The fact is that unless you install a non-standard edition of Windows, run one of the many questionable debloat scripts, make dozens upon dozens of edits to the registry, disable automatic updates, and block connections at the network/firewall level, then you will absolutely be sending boat loads of data to Microsoft.
And the second you do any updates you’ll have to make all the changes again, because Microsoft is notorious for reverting those changes.
And, after all that, you still cannot be completely sure that no data is sneaking its way back to Microsoft unless you diligently monitor all network traffic.
So I stand by my statement that the one thing Linux absolutely does, that Windows absolutely cannot, is protect your data from Microsoft.
What is your favourite game?
Sending personal data to Microsoft to see how famous I can become.
On Linux I feel really lonely and unwanted.
Great contra-argument to “this doesn’t run on Linux”. Some of you are insufferable.
Why you ask? You don’t trust my technical ability to look things up and try shit out?
Because you are mentioning that game as the reason why “Linux is dead”. Maybe if you shared someone would be able to resuscitate your Linux.
I agree with Linus Torvalds. Linux is too fragmented. This makes consistent software deployment and support expensive and far too varied. Maintaining documentation alone requires an unlimited number of distros. From a user’s perspective, I really think Linux needs a universal install method like .exe. No user should ever need to use the CLI install software, no matter their distribution. Radarr, for example, is a very popular home media server application. It is one-click install on Windows. It is fucked on Linux.
Flatpak as a software distribution solution already exists and is already widespread.
Now all we’re missing is the universal enforcement piece, which I think is non-trivial. It might take off organically but as per my example above, I’m not hopeful.
“Universal enforcement” meaning what? On its face your proposal sounds fundamentally antithetical to what linux is. It’s an open source environment, meaning literally anyone can create software and post it online. Are you wanting all directories to only accept flatpak? I don’t think that would go over well.
You highlight the issue: Linux users like it to be fragmented. So unless Valve forces consolidation, it will stay a mess, and it will continue to repel average users. If that’s what we want, cool. Let’s just stop calling every year the year of Linux, because that will never be the case.
Flatpak is far from perfect
- bloated
- sandboxing causes confusion
- interacting with it in CLI can be interesting
- all packaged libraries rely on the developer of the package you installed to update
The user to whom I was replying asked for a replacement to Windows’ .exe. Flatpaks are that, but much better.
They are bound to be bloated and self-serviced, just like .exe.
KDE Discover and GNOME Software eliminate the need to use CLI.
Have you guys decided which distro is the ready one?
At this point it should be obvious, btw
Obvious to whom exactly?
Hint: the answer lies within the last 3 letters of their post. And is probably a joke.
