Something tells me the aliens would be smart enough to ask questions like, “How do the factories get here to begin with?”
Even though I lean heavily toward socialism and believe an open source society is our future, we’ve got to move beyond memes and kindergarten oversimplifications of capitalism. Every industry and business empire ultimately starts with clever individuals working very hard on ideas that turn out to be better in some way than what’s already around, so they can grow and grow to become giant corporations. Over the course of time a lot of people get involved who don’t work any harder than a normal person but are just paid a lot more, and others simply inherit the money. Those are really ones everybody gets upset at,. The innovators and entrepreneurs deserve recognition and reward, we just have to find a way to do that without creating oligarchs and vast blocks of wealth.
Every industry and business empire ultimately starts with clever individuals working very hard on ideas
That is the flowery idealist narrative that the capitalist class relentlessly promotes, to the point that you’re now promoting it for them, but in fact each one starts with capital.
Well okay then where do new businesses come from, dad? Does the stork bring them? The word “capital” is just a meme-level grasp of it, like describing the whole economy as “jobs”.
😂
I gave you a link to a basic introduction of what capital is, but instead of engaging with the material, you say “it’s just a meme.”
https://www.sba.gov/business-guide/plan-your-business/fund-your-business
I said describing the process of creating a business with the single word “capital” is meme-level thinking. So is posting a picture of some books to pretend to be smart when you don’t have anything of substance to say. This is what Idiocracy looks like. It’s exactly why Trump won, and you’re part of the problem. Go ahead and rant some more, I won’t see it.
Trump won because Democrats were doing a genocide in Palestine and nobody wanted to vote for murderers
The Democrats were negotiating the Gaza ceasefire, which took effect a few days before Trump’s inauguration. Funny how nobody is talking about that. Harris wouldn’t be expelling immigrants, threatening to fire 2 million federal workers, purging diversity, gender, climate change, etc from government documents, and defunding anybody who objects. Single-issue voters are pouty idiots. And now here we are with a fucking dictator.
So I say somewhere else that one shouldn’t bother with this comic because its assumptions are flawed, but let’s point out exactly how because otherwise Marxists will live in the flawed understanding that their pov is unchallenged or inherently correct.
— the alien assumes for some magical reason a property cannot be owned, specifically a factory. A factory is not a natural product of the world, there’s not tree growing factories. Someone put in an investment to create it, and the work they allocate in that factory is a recoupment of that factory building investment.
— the workers obey “pieces” of paper because that’s what society decided is civilized behavior. The alternative is one where a factory owner decides to kill people for trying to take what’s theirs, or the workers decide to kill the factory owner to take over. Either way, there is violence and bloodshed.
Marxist believe, for whatever magical reasons, that the violence will stop once they seize the means of production. But why should it? Why wouldn’t another subgroup of Marxists constantly want to challenge the committees who want to run that specific factory? The answer is that without a rule or agreement (piece of paper), various groups will constantly try to seize what they think should be theirs.
— the alien believes that agreeing to work with someone is slavery. Here I have two things to say: 1) for someone who doesn’t want to work, then any kind of work will appear to be slavery, and that’s not a a capitalism problem, that’s a self actualization problem for some people. 2) in reasonable economies, people have choices for places to work, or unions which ensure that employers cannot abuse them, or laws which ensure protections.
The fact is simply this, whenever two people interact, they will have disagreements. We make laws to not kill each other over those disagreements. If you want to experience what it’s like living in an authoritarian state, try living in china or Vietnam. Rule of law means little or nothing in such places, whereas in democracies you can still get some recourse via the courts, or via regulations. Have kleptocrats and oligarchs ruined democracies, yes definitely.
— being a larger class doesn’t necessarily mean anything in violent conflict. I think any philosophy which relies on violent conflict to achieve its goals is tacitly admitting that it cannot win the hearts and minds of people via ideas alone.
Edit to say, I have a busy day ahead so I wont be responding lol, but doesn’t mean I agree or don’t want to challenge this vapid Marxist pov
And once more: lol @ downvoters constantly butthurt that their Marxist pov is challenged
Not only that, it insists on this 1800s argument/fantasy about factory workers. In an age and economy where 70% of people work in the services sector.
I seized my means of production. Or rather, bought them on Amazon. Same for lawyers, accountants, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, cleaning people, photographers, gardeners, painters…
it insists on this 1800s argument/fantasy about factory workers. In an age and economy where 70% of people work in the services sector.
It insists nothing of the sort. It makes no difference whether one labors for manufacturing industry wages or service industry wages. Either way one is proletariat, selling one’s labor to the bourgeoisie for survival.
I seized my means of production.
Congratulations, you are now petit bourgeois.
As are large swaths of the population. Or can be.
I was a freelancer and went back to “selling my labor” because the accounting, customer management, marketing, etc overhead were not worth the money or the stress. I could go back anytime but prefer work/life balance and stability. Am I proletariat now?
Yes, you are proletariat now. I too have vacillated between proletariat and petit bourgeois over the years, sometimes an employee, sometimes a freelancer, and sometimes a business owner with employees. Class isn’t a measure of income or a vibe, it’s one’s relationship to capital.
Fair enough. But I also get RSUs as compensation so I own a (tiny) part of the company. And a bunch of others via ETF. So I’m part bourgeois!
I just fail to see this “we must seize the means of production” Motto being applicable to current (western) capitist countries. Plenty of people can do that just by giving their notice and registering an LLC (or SL, or GmbH, or whatever your local equivalent is).
And not only highly educated elites (which arguably in the US is quite discriminatory, in Europe we have free higher education) but plenty of working class jobs can do it.
You want to seize the means of production? Put the pitchfork down, fill form 123abc and godspeed.
Inb4 “you dont understand communism” and then you say “how am i wrong” and they say “heres some titles of topics and books that prove you wrong” and you say “why cant you explain how it applies to this situation?” And they say “if people behaved selflessly…” and you say “but people are selfish” and they say “you are brainwashed by captialistic values” and then you both get tired of typing and move on.
What situation
Spider-Man
That isn’t what happened here, lol
Ill take credit for that
There’s no magic involved, the comic assumes a lot of things and you chose to assume the wrong ones for it to make sense.
It contraposes the rational modeling of modern economists to its illogical effects.
The alien assumes a property cannot be owned because it in fact can not be owned. You can say you own the statue of liberty but if there’s no consensus you will have no particoular agency toward it. This applies to trees themselves even if there are tree growing trees.
the workers obey “pieces” of paper because that’s what society decided is civilized behavior.
That’s the point.
The alternative is one where a factory owner decides to kill people for trying to take what’s theirs, or the workers decide to kill the factory owner to take over. Either way, there is violence and bloodshed.
Congratulation, you do get the comic. That’s what the aliens are saying, why don’t the many worker take the place from the single owner.
Then you go on bringing forward your personal opinion about “obvious facts of life” which are old, trite, wrong and unworthy of my time.
The alien assumes a property cannot be owned because it in fact can not be owned.
Why? If someone pays for the resources to build it, then who owns it? If the labor could build it to begin with, then why didn’t it? Then labor could be the owner. But if labor relies on resources to build mechanisms of productivity, then it’s fair to say that those who build the mechanisms are justly due some compensation for their input.
We already tried armed conflict over resources, the pieces of paper were what we decided was a better alternative.
If someone pays for the resources to build it, then who owns it?
What part of “nobody can’t own anything” aren’t you getting?
You are making up a bunch of your own rules and patting yourself on the back. That has nothing to do with the comic.
The state owns it in a Marxist society. Or are you saying that a group of farmers in China can go tell the PRC what to do
I’m sorry I’m not engaging until you get what “nobody can’t own anything” means.