Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from !vegan@lemmy.world for being fake vegans.

From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.

PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don’t want to insult anyone here being a ‘bastard’. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.

PPS: Some instances or clients seem to compress the screenshots in a way they’re unreadable. Find the full resolution here: https://imgur.com/a/8XdexTm

Linking the affected users and mods: @Cypher@lemmy.world @gaael@lemmy.world @gredo@lemmy.world @iiGxC@slrpnk.net @veganpizza69@lemmy.world @veganpizza69@lemmy.vg @jerkface@lemmy.ca @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world @Sunshine@lemmy.ca @Aqua@lemmy.vg

  • gaael@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    2 months ago

    Lol found out here that I had been banned from the community. Ty for sharing the information :)

    Regarding the matter, I understand their reaction.
    I’ve been interacting with some vegan circles IRL and some are more “hardcore” (not in a negative way) than others. When you consider animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder, it becomes increasingly difficult to tolerate even light deviations from the all-vegan path.

    This being said, I would have preferred they had a better wording for the temp ban reason than “fake vegan” by which I feel insulted and hurt.

    • FelixCress@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      When you consider animal exploitation as mass slavery, mass torture and mass murder,

      … it is the time to speak to a psychiatrist.

      • gaael@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Hello dear internet user,
        It looks like you need to educate yourself on at least 3 topics before using your keyboard again:

        • why is it hurtful and not ok to rebutt other’s opinions by suggesting they are mentally ill?
        • are other animals sentient, sociable and do they feel emotions and pain?
        • how are meat and dairy products produced and how many animals live in this system?

        Once you’ve done the work, we’ll be able to agree on the basics facts and exchange arguments on how we see the situation and the precise words we want to use.

        Looking forward to engaging with you in good faith in the future,
        Me.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          Hello dear internet user

          It looks like you need to educate yourself about the terms like “food chain” and “what is the difference between food and humans”.

          Once you’ve done the work, we’ll be able to agree on the basics facts and exchange arguments. Looking forward to engaging with you in good faith in the future.

    • glimse@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      The “all or nothing” crowd really knows how to stomp on progress, huh?

      • Deceptichum@quokk.au
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Are you “all or nothing” with stopping rape? Or would you be okay with some light raping happening, if the majority was anti-rape?

        They clearly view this act as something as abhorrent as we would rape, so why are you surprised they don’t want to meet half way on the topic?

        • glimse@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          Uh, because rape doesn’t keep people alive? Because rape hasn’t been a part of the human diet since before recorded history? What the fuck??

          Take your bullshit whataboutism elsewhere. Holy shit, I have never seen such a bad take on the topic of veganism. I hope this is hyperbole and you don’t ACTUALLY think the two things are comparable.

      • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        2 months ago

        It’s like they don’t realize that by being this hostile towards any other viewpoints, they drive away people who might otherwise be interested in becoming vegan or want to learn more. All it does is harm the community in the long run, and then they wonder why there’s a stigma around vegans. That stigma then feeds into a persecution complex and that becomes a nasty vicious cycle.

        • Bob@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          Sorry but I think I disagree with that sentiment. I’d liken it to how fascists like to say that leftists annoy people away from the left; imagine thinking “well I disagree with using animals as a resource in the human endeavour but they’re just so mean/annoying/polemic that I’ll just keep doing the thing I disagree with”. It just seems childish and you should really judge a philosophy like this on its merits instead.

  • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    2 months ago

    I’m not undoing the bans as the comments literally go against the definition of veganism ie no animal products for the reason of ethics, serving meat options in an establishment isn’t even vegetarian let alone vegan. Words are supposed to have meaning or language is completely pointless.

    The foods that are vegan and plant-based have zero animal products. It is not up for debate.

    You’re welcome to post and comment in flexitarian communities instead.

    • TJDetweiler@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      2 months ago

      Serious question, not meant to be antagonistic. I’m honestly just curious.

      Is the purpose of your community to simply be an echo chamber of similar opinions? Is debate not allowed, or having a different opinion?

      I will never visit that community, but this seems like a wild abuse of mod powers. You do whatever you want, I don’t care and have no skin in the game, but don’t you want to foster discussion on your community? An echo chamber with other vegans doesn’t seem conducive to achieving anything, other than maybe a feels good circlejerk. The downvote button exists if you have a different opinion. A straight ban for not toeing the line seems like further isolating your view points from the greater Lemmy community, as well as entrenches the view point a lot of people have that vegans are hostile to non-vegans.

      Calling other vegans fake vegans and banning them tho is whack as fuck but pretty hilarious

      • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        2 months ago

        When I go to a vegan community, I don’t want to debate with carnists. I would consider that trolling. There are other places meant for debating. Vegan communities are basically safe spaces to talk with other vegans and people that want to be vegan.

        Too many carnists troll the vegan communities, they created this problem. I first joined lemmy during the reddit exodus on a .world account. The vegan community at that point was poorly moderated and most of the comments were carnists circle jerking about how eating meat is so great to them. Finally, active people took over and it became so much better to actually browse that community once these trolls were banned. This behavior is nothing new btw, I’ve seen assholes on reddit and facebook do the same to vegan spaces. You’ll notice I’m no longer on .world, I disagree with their modding practices and lately I feel even more justified in leaving that cesspool.

        I want vegan news, vegan recipes, and vegan discussion. I do not want carnists coming in, at all. People can come in asking genuine questions about veganism, but no debating whatsoever. I do not mod any of these communities btw, but this is what I want as a user.

        It seems hostile to you because you have not had to deal with the constant carnist trolls. People who complain vegans are militant or hostile is a red flag for me, it really means that vegans are too unapologetic about their veganism instead of being passive people who don’t rock the boat or question the status quo. These people are defensive about vegans pointing out that they are consuming products made from abuse, rape, and murder. They want to be treated with kiddie gloves. Sorry, but no vegan is obligated to do so.

        • TJDetweiler@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          2 months ago

          Thanks for the honest reply. I guess a couple thoughts I have on your response.

          1. The screenshot in question was a vegan banning other vegans for not being vegan enough, so this didn’t seem like carnist trolls, this seems like multiple people integrated within the vegan community getting banned for having a slightly different opinion.

          2. Is carnists a real term? I don’t think I have ever heard of someone who eats exclusively meat, unless this term is meant a different way

          Anyway, sorry about the trolling you experience. I am personally not vegan, though I find the endeavor admirable. I think a lot of Lemmy and social media, and social circles in general need to practice a bit of “live and let live”

          • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            11 days ago

            Hope the late reply is fine, I had a trip that wiped me out.

            1. yes, the mod is being protective of the community. To you it is a slightly different opinion, to someone who follows a vegan lifestyle, it is not really vegan. Like at all. Vegans want to eliminate meat altogether. So if you eliminate meat by having a vegan restaurant, but then bring meat in, it is not vegan anymore. Idk what I would have done as a mod. Wanting meat at a restaurant is not vegan even if you are just trying to attract more customers so you do not close down. It might make more sense if you replace the word “meat” with “abuse, rape, and murder.” Would you accept a little murder, even killing children to stay in business? I get it is hard to get a non-vegan to try vegan food, I’ve written before about how my SO basically refuses to try vegan food.

            2. carnists is a real term. It is:

            “A proponent of carnism; one who supports the practice of eating meat and using other animal products.”

            https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnist

            It is the opposite of veganism. They are essentially anti-vegan. They like to go in vegan areas and debate with everyone to try to justify their consumption of meat. It makes them feel good to troll us.

            And yes there are people who try to eat nothing but meat, it is called a carnivore diet. I have a family member who is on the diet, they pretty much only want to eat steak. There is a new community on lemmy about it, I blocked it obviously. The mod of said community was whining about their stuff getting downvoted in their community on a different lemmy community. Judging by the amount of people (including admins) who hate vegans on lemmy.world, I thought their community would be very successful.

            I get the whole “live and let live” thing about a difference in opinion on who the best character on a show you are watching is. But when it involves actual lives, I think it’s time to speak up. Vegans are annoying because they want people to stop killing animals for consumption and people would rather vegans just shut up and go away so they can enjoy their meat without thinking about where it came from, that’s it. Talk about veganism outside of a vegan community and be prepared to get ratioed.

  • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    2 months ago

    Shit like this is why I went back to eating eggs and dairy.

    Also my (still vegan) wife took in a bunch of chickens.

    • threeduck@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      2 months ago

      Damn the dairy industry is the worst for the world too. Wouldn’t you say your morals are pretty flimsy if you’ll give up on em to avoid looking cringey?

      • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        No, I asked myself why am I spending more money to the same conglomerates to receive a shittier product.

        It’s “easy” to be a modern vegan…if you give half your food budget to Monsanto and Kellogs.

        Being an ethical vegan is damn near impossible in the modern grocery market. Especially if you have a life outside being a vegan.

        So I can pay top dollar for some shit cheese that barely melts, made by some giant food corp…for what? To feel better about protecting the environment? Why? So that more hicks in Texas can roll coal to their nearest buccees to buy a liter of diet coke in a Styrofoam cup?

        Fuck it. The world’s going down in a hand basket anyway. If nobody else is gonna change them I’m not gonna disadvantage myself financially before the coming collapse by eating inferior ice cream.

        • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          11 days ago

          I am super confused by your comments. It is cheaper to be vegan. I’m on welfare benefits for one person and am able to afford being vegan plus afford food for my non-vegan SO. Your comment about vegan cheese that doesn’t melt sounds like you haven’t tried more different vegan cheeses; for example if you want vegan mac n cheese you would make a vegan cheese sauce, not throw in a block of vegan cheese from the store and lament how it doesn’t melt. I have not needed dairy cheese for my meals, for burritos or burgers or anything like that and do not miss the taste or texture of dairy cheese. I also don’t consider vegan ice cream inferior, honestly you sound anti-vegan. Maybe you are just venting in defense but this is pretty much the language I would expect from my carnist family members.

          It sounds like you don’t care about the morality of veganism (something I care very much about), that you did it more for the environment and once you felt inconvenienced you abandoned it. I do feel sad for you because not only is it cheaper to be vegan, but it can be delicious and you are not harming animals in order to do so. Do you still buy store eggs? I have a family member with about 7 hens and they still have to supplement with store eggs. The abuse cows go through for humans to have dairy (and meat obviously) is unacceptable to me. Yes, capitalism needs to be abolished, but in the meantime animals are dying by the millions every year.

          It is very hard to get people to change, but I don’t think we should just give up on it. A lot of people do not have open minds about veganism, it’s gotten to the point that I hate bringing it up. And I am tired of arguing with my SO over it, that could really be its own post lol. I really only feel safe talking about veganism online, but that’s at least a first step.