If at some point you want to delete your account and have your posts and comments be gone, you better delete it all manually before you actually delete the account, because that deletion process does not really work as advertised.
For my main account on world (which runs an outdated lemmy version), it seemed like at least the account deletion was federated so that my user page was no longer browsable from other instances, but none of my posts, comments or images had been deleted, not even on the home instance.
The homie @MrKaplan@lemmy.world helped me by manually deleting my stuff, but it seems like that has only worked for the home instance, posts and comments seem to still be readable from other instances (except for some of the images that MrKaplan manually deleted too, but that was only possible up to a date not too far in the past because lemmy used to not associate user uploads with the accounts). So my old posts from the world account can be viewed just fine from other instances:
For other instances that are more up to date the process is even worse imo, while locally things seem to get deleted, federation does not seem to happen at all. For example you can still browse my deleted slrpnk or lemmee accounts from other instances just fine:
https://slrpnk.net/u/achtungdrempels@lemm.ee
https://lemm.ee/u/AchtungDrempels@slrpnk.net
Account deletion in piefed works kinda like the old lemmy system (as on lemmy.world), and nothing gets deleted except the user page (which also seems to get federated), the posts and comments stay up.
Thought this would be interesting to some, if i had known what a mess this would be (obviously expected some federation issues, just not like that), i would have manually deleted everything. I deleted all these accounts in December, maybe this has been addressed somehow in the meantime, personally i’d have trust issues in this process.
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Your account is not your posts. Why would one assume that deleting the account would remove the posts? When a person stops speaking the things they said do not become unsaid. When they die their actions don’t retroactively undo themselves.
Thank you, Lord Mathias, for blessing me with this insight. I am now at peace. 🙏
I don’t see why people get so riled up in the comment section of this post.
Is the original post a legit psa? Definitely. Will this become problematic with European law at some point? Well at least it’s going to be interesting. Should we care? Seeing as lemmy development is partially funded by the European Commission, definitely! Should we care for altruistic reasons? Also definitely. This place is supposed to be better than the centralized corporate social media to its users, especially also regarding privacy. It’s good practice to set up new accounts every once in a while against doxing and seeing how much of the community on lemmy is built by people who are sensitive to their privacy this is sth we should respect.
Should we break down in squabbles here of one instance against another? Please, if I want to hear “all people from place x are bad” I’d just switch on an election debate. Show that your adults. Take your peers and their concerns here seriously. Make something out of it when people raise legit concerns. Thank you bonjour for bringing up this topic.
Nothing is ever really deleted on the internet, especially if it was automatically replicated to dozens of other servers.
This is such a goofy take. Yes, obviously you can never be 100% there isn’t some copy or archive laying somewhere, but wanting it to be deleted for 99% of the ways people would find it is reasonable. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
OP does have a point.
This isn’t really helpful.
My point is how could you ever count on deletion when the content is being federated?
Even if Lemmy devs made account deletion easy and cascade deletes your content, all it takes is one server run by an archivist and that content is never going away.
It seems inherently unfixable in a federated system, like trying to unsend an email.
Eh, I rather things be deleted from mainstream instance at least. Don’t gotta be all or nothing to improve the current experience.
My point is he’s not asking for it to be deleted from the entire internet.
You’re just here to jerk yourself off over “uhm, actually! nothing is ever deleted from the internet!” which also isn’t true.
Actually he is. He wants his account deletion to delete all his comments and federate that out. However if that were how it works it would be very misleading to users because they would expect their posts to be deleted across the fediverse when that wouldn’t be the case. Some servers would retain that data and not comply with deleting all the comments.
Cheers to the lemmy.nz admin for misleading (very) their users with the futile idea of federation, all across the fediverse, to not just let this funny comment end up in a dead end locally.
How has anyone been mislead
I’m not sure what OP meant but I think none of the comments here are nailing it. If we say, we can’t do anything unless it’s 100% certain that all instances comply with the protocol, we might scrap the whole Fediverse idea altogether. Any post or comment or vote or deletion could be tempered with in one way or another. I mean we’re clearly making an effort here to do federation. I don’t really agree with the why and how of the whole discussion. My own point is, the software seems to have some bugs. Rarely, some comments and posts don’t federate to me correctly, and more often than that, deletions don’t federate correctly. Which seems to be one of OP’s problems, but also while dealing with spam or malicious activities.
On the other hand, everyone who thinks it’s super easy to just delete everything has never had a look at the consequences. Moderators and Admins sometimes need to deal with bad people, there are technical reasons involved. And bad people also misuse features. It’s complicated for several reasons, difficult to get it right and it’s always a balance between opposing legitimate interests.
But with that said, this doesn’t apply to bugs. Lemmy should at least iron out the software bugs to federate activities to other instances properly.
How again would anybody be mislead if deletions were being federated? Use this answer to answer yourself.
Great info, thanks for clueing me in.
Is that supposed to be sarcasm?
Yes. I know it would be good practice to mark it, but that would just ruin it for myself. I hope clarifying on request is sufficient. Wish you a nice day.
Wish you a nice day.
… was that sarcastic?
No.
Is this sarcastic too?
Oh shit
New meme just dropped
Out of curiosity: What’s a reason to delete all the content? I don’t want to imply you shouldn’t be able to do so… But I often find it very annoying when people delete large quantities of stuff. Because that also deletes the comments I made, which took me time to write. It deletes my bookmarks. And sometimes people wipe their history regularly, which removes technical questions along with the correct answers and other material that might prove useful to other people, if it weren’t deleted… And I had things that I’d have liked to return to, vanish into thin air multiple times now.
I’d like to understand the perspectives and two sides of that coin. And since you say you’d like to delete content, I thought I’d ask about your perspective and the why…
Data privacy (the “right to be forgotten”) I’d say is the main reason. Say you realise that you’ve built up a little to much linkable information about yourself over the years and don’t want it readily available for whoever might want to make use of it.
Good use-case. Would it suffice to “unlink” the information in that case, instead of deleting it? I think that’d solve both problems. The posts and comments would stay in place for everyone to keep using them, but it’d say “by [deleted user]”, so it’s forgotten that you (or someone) wrote it.
I’m not sure. And we somehow need to present that to the user without overwhelming them with several options, delete account without data, delete account and unlink content, delete account and content…
It doesn’t matter. If someone believes they’ve linked too much and wants to delete it, they should be able to. If someone wants to delete their content for any reason they should be able to.
Honestly? No, they should t be able to blanket delete everything theyve posted on the off chance it’s identifiable information
They should have the right to find that info and remove it, but I’m 1000% against people potentially taking down useful information from society and I do not care that people want to whine about their “right” to take their fucking ball back and end the game
So much useful info gone from Reddit because babies didn’t want to keep supporting the bad site and now good luck finding it anywhere else
You don’t get to decide what’s identifiable and what’s not. How do you know the useful information isn’t identifying?
Great reading comprehension dude
You’re just assuming helpful information is somehow separate from identifying information. That’s not necessarily the case.
Exactly. And I sometimes find myself in the position where internet enshittification and content vanishing harms me more than it helps. So I’d like to balance this with the other side of the medal, where people might have legitimate interest to do so. But so far the argument has been “just because”. And for me, that argument doesn’t tip the scale to their direction. I still have tangible arguments not to over-delete. While the other side seems to be very theoretical.
The thing is: if I cannot easily remove the information I want from what I produce, I might as well delete everything including what is useful.
And I’m not speaking hypotetically here. Everytime I struggle to find the comments about how my day went in a sea of “deleted by user” comment, I feel like I should just delete my whole history and start afresh. If Lemmy doesn’t improve that way, all the effort I put guiding new users and posting on small community will go pouf… Because I won’t take it much longer.
Sure. Question is: How can we improve? Is this a symptom for another missing feature? Or do we want to not address it and just provide one nuclear option? Would you for example like a feature for ephermeral comments, which auto-destruct after a week or so? PieFed has something like that for posts. Or the ability to categorize comments so you can find them later on? Or an option to (regularly) wipe your history, so you don’t have to delete the whole account…
That’s why I ask for exact reasons, and not just a vague feeling about how the platform is bad… I mean it is for some edge-cases like this. And I don’t see how Lemmy would improve on this in the near future. Seems some of the groundworks still don’t work properly. But this doesn’t have to apply to other Fediverse software.
And sometimes I struggle to relate. I for example don’t post anything on social media that’s very private in nature. So I don’t really have the use-case where I post someting publicly on social media, but then I want it gone at the same time. I suppose we just post different things, because I can see how you wouldn’t have your daily state of mind available forever.
No, they should t be able to blanket delete everything theyve posted
They should have the right to find that info and remove it
Which is it? Or do you just have a problem with being able to easily delete the information?
Probably a technical consideration (like what if they have an edit timestamp which would allow a dedicated person to find all the comments unlinked at the exact same time), a personal consideration (what if you actually want that information purged as thoroughly as possible), and a legal consideration (sounds like it violates the GDPR)
Tl;dr: Yes, it’s complicated.
Hmmh. I think 1) just means it has to be implemented properly. But you’re right. That sounds exactly like something a developer would do. Unlink the information and at the same time add a timestamp that immediately links it again 😅
And I’m not sure about 3) I’d have to read the GDPR again. Afaik it just mandates the user is provided with the ability to do so. Not that it needs to be the default.
And 2) is kind of my question. I suppose a user who is about to delete their account, might not be super relaxed and ready to deal with the intricate details. I mean they could be pissed and want out asap. Or something happened and they need to get it over with, quickly. Either way, it’s probably not the right time to bother them with 500 questions and make them learn about the consequences. Though… They need to do the right thing. Once their account is gone, and it turns out they would have liked to delete more (or less), that’s not really possible any more (without manual admin intervention). So maybe it’s down to: delete everything in any case, and accept that it has a negative effect on the content on the platform.
It also has to be balanced with handling abuse etc since malicious actors use the same features to cover their tracks.
But I’m probably getting way ahead of where we are. OP said deletion doesn’t even propagate through the federated network correctly. So realistically, we probably don’t need to bother with the details several steps down the line.
- Hilariously the soution would be facebook style “we won’t delete your data if you log back in n days”
I hate it so much when people delete useful information.
Because i was bummed out on lemmy and i just did not want to have a presence here anymore. And honestly this topic feels like a reminder to delete my account again, haha. But i won’t, so that maybe one, two other people may delete their accounts better than me.
Hmmh, not sure if I’m experiencing a Déjà vu, or if this is just because I’ve talked to some people who were complaining about some aspect of the platform and saying they’re going to quit. Anyways, I wish that you’re somehow going to find what you’re looking for. Whether it’s on this platform or somewhere else.
Seems to me like you’re having an on-and-off relationship. And those often turn out to be… difficult?
Oh right, i think i was telling you that when you asked this in the world matrix chat, when I showed up there, talking about my problem deleting the account in December.
Interesting edit.
The fediverse is inherently a place where it’s a lot harder to delete anything than on non-federated platforms. It always will be because everything you post here is instantly copied to hundreds (if not thousands) of other servers. Some of them may be actively hostile and intentionally not respect deletions. Some of them may just be misconfigured or for another non-malicious reason fail to delete things.
So don’t post things on the fediverse that you think you might one day regret.
That an account deletion on, say, lemm.ee does not get federated with anybody at all was kind of unexpected to me, i thought this might be interesting for others as well.
So don’t post things on the fediverse that you think you might one day regret.
I think they meant this as general advice for all lemmings and not your particular post, which btw is very much appreciated.
At least my point got through to one of my fellow “dimwits/homophobes/transphobes/racists” between all the braindead lemmy.world dunking and other Einstein takes. Thank you :)
Opening this topic was a great reminder why i did not want to have a presence on lemmy anymore though, haha.
I wonder if it might lead to some issues with European laws at some point
Yeah, that’s what I also wonder. Lemmy is still too small to attract any attention from regulators, but I wonder how the GDPR would work with federation.
There are some differences with normal social media though: every instance is managed by different people, so in theory you would have to ask every federated instance for your data to be deleted.
Or, maybe, posting on the fediverse may be compared to spreading pamphlets with your messages to many different people; you can’t expect a reasonable way to “recall” everything you shared with the public.
I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer. But it’s going to be interesting. Meta, in the meantime, decided not to risk it at all and their fediverse integration just doesn’t work in the EU.
Another reason why I suggest another instance than LW
Lemmy from 0.19.4 allows users to at least delete their uploaded images
… of course you chime in with this take 🙄
- MrKaplan deleted the images for me manually, which i am sure he would not just do for me
- the process is even worse on other instances and they can also only delete images up to a certain point.
Seems better to be able to delete your uploads yourself than having to ask manual support from an admin
I guess that is a bit nicer, although the contact with MrKaplan was totally nice too.
And if your account deletion on your super cool tiny instance is only happening locally, you may not even delete it at all. At least on world you delete your stuff from a third of the lemmyverse in one go, but i’m sure you will be happy to spread some more bad news about world, all in the name to grow the fediverse 😂
You always seemed very defensive about any criticism against LW, I never understood why
Maybe reread what i wrote and think about why i may find your dunk on world misplaced. That i was defensive about any lw criticism is just not true either.
And yeah, your crusade against world (actually all the instance beefing, you can find examples of me being defensive of criticism of .ml too in my not-deleted accounts) was also part of why i lost hope in the lemmy project. And i did not agree that you create fake traffic in other communities to ask the world mods to shut down their communities, because yours now has more traffic (although it was basically all produced all by you). I thought that was dumb as hell, but you do you. I was more interested in actual communities interested in topics, not instance beef.
I thought you were leaving the platform?
Good luck, in any case
If you want me to be gone, don’t chat me up and don’t look into this topic. Easy.
The problem isn’t in the system, but in your expectations.
You’re starting with a wrong assumption that things publicly available on the internet can simply be deleted. That’s not how any of this works.Maybe that’s our fault. Maybe we weren’t clear enough back when you started using the internets. But It’s true, deleting things online is very difficult. You shouldn’t ever expect it to be simple or easy.
Don’t you think that’s shifting the goalpost a bit? OP isn’t talking about something being archived they’re talking about a piece of content on social media still directly linking to that username.
Deleting things in as many places as possible making it harder to access is still a net positive.
It’s about as much of a part or mechanic of Lemmy as posting is.
Don’t you think that’s shifting the goalpost a bit? OP isn’t talking about something being archived they’re talking about a piece of content on social media still directly linking to that username.
What goal post? There is no actual, technical, difference, between archive and active. As soon as a post is made, it’s old, and part of the accessible archive of past posts and accounts.
A basic reality from the beginning of the internet, is that you once you make something publicly available, it’s out there. You can’t really ever take it back. It’s just a fundamental principal of how the internet works. A lot of people seem to forget that.
But deleting stuff is an easy way to limit the amount of potential viewers.
Most people aren’t going to put in the effort. If OP’s account deletion spreads across most of Lemmy, even just the larger instances, most people aren’t going to see their older posts.
That seems to be what OP is after. More in line with hiding poorly written Doctor Who fan fiction than hiding from the government in the woods.
You’re still missing the fundamental reality of the situation.
Stuff online generally doesn’t get deleted. And almost never because you want it to. I think the EU passed a law about the “right to be forgotten”. But the reality is, that’s like fighting gravity. The effort and resources it takes to truly break orbit are far beyond most people’s, and even most government’s means. Same with truly deleting anything online.
But that’s not what is being talked about. I don’t think OP is expecting an all or nothing situation. You’re talking like you’ve never deleted anything online
Yes.
Op isn’t expecting an all or nothing. I’m suggesting they should expect nothing. All isn’t even worth talking about.And yes.
I’ve never deleted anything online. Never had a reason to. If I ever imagined a reason I’d want to delete something, I wouldn’t post it to begin with. Because I know I can’t delete it. See how that works. So what if I was wrong, or embarrassing, that’s part of being human, own you’re mistakes and move on. Don’t hide them. They are who you were. They are how you got where you are. They’re responsible for who you’ve become. Take pride in the failings of your past.
Hello Mr. Internet,
do you think that the expected behaviour of the lemmy software would be that account deletions do not get federated whatsoever?
Please, call me Steve.
Reality holds no responsibility to conform to anyone’s expectations. However, my decades in the reality of the internet have shaped my expectations. I never expect anything on the internet to be truly deleted. Accounts are locked, but they and everything associated with them still exists. If you contact support, and sufficiently prove you’re you, they can reinstate your account. In the rare cases they can’t, they make it abundantly clear, and explain why they can’t, in the deletion process.
Unless Lemmy specifically states all changes are guaranteed to be federated, I’d assume by default none will. I’ll reiterate, reality has no responsibility to conform to my expectations. Deletions may in fact be federated sometimes.
But that’s immaterial, since I don’t post anything with the expectation I’ll ever be able to delete it. An expectation built upon reality, not the reverse. An expectation I’m trying to impress on you.
Please, call me Steve.
Shut up, Steve. ;)
I think Lemmy should display a simple warning on sign-up that everything you post on the fediverse can’t be reasonably ever deleted, because it’s going to be shared to possibly infinite different parties.
The current delete function states:
“Warning: this will permanently delete your account. The deletion may not always federate to other instances.”The first part, I’m almost certain isn’t actually true.
The second part basically confirms what you’re asking for.Yah. That could be stated explicitly on signup.
But to sum up what I said in other comments here; Not being able to delete things, is like the Internet’s version of gravity. Be glad it works, and don’t waste effort fighting it.
That’s so weird, because comment deletions do get federated (mostly)
Its not like the alternative reddit is any better at least here someone could design a free app to do it, while reddit you gotta pay to access the api to delete all your posts/comments
I edit over and then delete all my comments every few days. I’ve never encountered a site that truly purges your account so as annoying it is it just feels necessary at this point
edit: interesting some of us are getting downvotes for this.
Asking out of genuine naivety, why do you do that?
Once you’ve been doxxed you tend to put more effort into covering your tracks lol
Is this automatic?
Nope lol
I do the same (though I have automated the process). I’m thinking of also undoing any votes just in case.
Edit+delete doesn’t remove content when servers defederate each other, unfortunately. I suspect this can be fixed if you control the Lemmy server your account is hosted on, but I haven’t bothered exploring that yet.
Oooo is this automatic process something that’s easy to replicate?
A reason why I never joined LW.
Lemmy.world is a trash instance.
But! Without it being the honey pot that draws all the dimwits/homophobes/transphobes/racists from elsewhere (same for whatever Hexbear/Chapo domain those dipshits have now) and keeps them there, I oppose defederating from them, we should only sandbox them so any comments they make stays on the .world domain.
Can you guys read?
Holy moly, this place seems to have gotten worse in the last two months lol.
Yeah, although in my mind it’s pretty much always been like this.
People on the internet are eager to say “something” even if it doesn’t actually address the issue at hand.
It’s sad, but it gets easier to deal with once we stop expecting more.
I just read your entire post, so don’t know what the fuck you are on about my reading comprehension.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, but lemmy.world definitely does not condone what you’re saying.
I wish a had the patience to go through my post history and link you the countless discussions there I’ve had with those types of people there.
