Have you tried asking? Or do you not believe the reasons they tell you?
So you are you in favour of Putin’s regime? In which case I don’t see how you can think of yourself as a leftist. If you actually do support Putin’s regime then you have a lot in common with the far-right who also do.
If Putin’s regime was in the US then many people would call such a regime fascism.
Not particularly, no, but I suppose it depends on what it means to “support” a foreign leader. No matter what I say I support or oppose, it’s not going to change the material world unless I take actions with the aim of achieving specific results. And it seems to me that my primary mechanism for affecting foreign politics is through the actions of my own government. Do I want my government to undermine Putin’s government? No. Do I see Putin’s government as worthy of emulation? Also no.
My position as a leftist is to focus on class interests. Both Ukraine and Russia are capitalist governments that do very little for the people, and who controls what will make little material difference to lives of ordinary people. What does make a difference is the war, in which people are being drafted and thrown into a meat grinder to fight over rubble. What’s the point in dying to maintain a shitty system? Even if there was a point, it was probably inevitable that Ukraine would be unable to reclaim all it’s territory, so the choice was always, “Accept territorial concessions now, or accept territorial concessions after a bunch of people have died.” Of course, I don’t support Russia’s involvement either, but my government isn’t funding Russia.
Meanwhile, of course, the US is massively overextended. Decades long conflicts in the Middle East, supporting genocide in Palestine, sabre rattling with China, and now fighting a proxy war with China. Had we been more cautious and restrained in the past, perhaps we would have enough diplomatic leverage to diplomatically isolate Russia and enforce sanctions effectively. Or, perhaps if we gave up on Ukraine, the government could’ve more effectively isolated China. But by taking on both simultaneously, they’ve been pushed together, and the US has thrown away the key asset that allowed it to win the Cold War: the Sino-Soviet split.
Even if the war was completely justified and black-and-white, we would still need to consider the practical and realistic questions about whether maintaining the territorial integrity of a country on the other side of the world that most people can’t find on a map is really worth it, or even achievable. But liberals seem to really, really hate this kind of analysis, as if the world was a Saturday morning cartoon where the good guy always wins. The US is not Superman. We are dealing with all sorts of domestic issues which have given rise to the far-right, and that poses a much greater existential threat than control over Donbass.
How on earth can you accuse me of not being a leftist and being similar to the far-right for saying that we should spend more money on schools and hospitals and less money on bombs? What do left and right even mean to you?
Decent points to be honest. Maybe the US could have helped Ukraine negotiate something where they very reluctantly give up some land to Russia in return for proper security (with western backing) for the rest of Ukraine. Obviously not an ideal situation, but yes it could have prevented a lot of deaths. And maybe western countries would have realised that more investment in defence would be needed to properly protect the rest of Ukraine, and the rest of Europe, and other countries.
How on earth can you accuse me of not being a leftist and being similar to the far-right for saying that we should spend more money on schools and hospitals and less money on bombs?
It’s just where you said “do you not believe the reasons they tell you?”. I thought you were meaning that there are genuine reasons to support or like Putin’s regime, and that I just wasn’t believing those reasons.
Being anti-war is definitely a good position. Perhaps I shouldn’t have generalised across all of Lemmy.ml and Hexbear to assume that everyone on those instances believes the same things. My perspective has just been based on intolerance I have seen from those instances in the past, e.g. Lemmy.ml mods labelling posts as US propaganda because those posts mentioned that Russia was the aggressor in the Ukraine war.
So you are you in favour of Putin’s regime? In which case I don’t see how you can think of yourself as a leftist. If you actually do support Putin’s regime then you have a lot in common with the far-right who also do.
If Putin’s regime was in the US then many people would call such a regime fascism.
Not particularly, no, but I suppose it depends on what it means to “support” a foreign leader. No matter what I say I support or oppose, it’s not going to change the material world unless I take actions with the aim of achieving specific results. And it seems to me that my primary mechanism for affecting foreign politics is through the actions of my own government. Do I want my government to undermine Putin’s government? No. Do I see Putin’s government as worthy of emulation? Also no.
My position as a leftist is to focus on class interests. Both Ukraine and Russia are capitalist governments that do very little for the people, and who controls what will make little material difference to lives of ordinary people. What does make a difference is the war, in which people are being drafted and thrown into a meat grinder to fight over rubble. What’s the point in dying to maintain a shitty system? Even if there was a point, it was probably inevitable that Ukraine would be unable to reclaim all it’s territory, so the choice was always, “Accept territorial concessions now, or accept territorial concessions after a bunch of people have died.” Of course, I don’t support Russia’s involvement either, but my government isn’t funding Russia.
Meanwhile, of course, the US is massively overextended. Decades long conflicts in the Middle East, supporting genocide in Palestine, sabre rattling with China, and now fighting a proxy war with China. Had we been more cautious and restrained in the past, perhaps we would have enough diplomatic leverage to diplomatically isolate Russia and enforce sanctions effectively. Or, perhaps if we gave up on Ukraine, the government could’ve more effectively isolated China. But by taking on both simultaneously, they’ve been pushed together, and the US has thrown away the key asset that allowed it to win the Cold War: the Sino-Soviet split.
Even if the war was completely justified and black-and-white, we would still need to consider the practical and realistic questions about whether maintaining the territorial integrity of a country on the other side of the world that most people can’t find on a map is really worth it, or even achievable. But liberals seem to really, really hate this kind of analysis, as if the world was a Saturday morning cartoon where the good guy always wins. The US is not Superman. We are dealing with all sorts of domestic issues which have given rise to the far-right, and that poses a much greater existential threat than control over Donbass.
How on earth can you accuse me of not being a leftist and being similar to the far-right for saying that we should spend more money on schools and hospitals and less money on bombs? What do left and right even mean to you?
Decent points to be honest. Maybe the US could have helped Ukraine negotiate something where they very reluctantly give up some land to Russia in return for proper security (with western backing) for the rest of Ukraine. Obviously not an ideal situation, but yes it could have prevented a lot of deaths. And maybe western countries would have realised that more investment in defence would be needed to properly protect the rest of Ukraine, and the rest of Europe, and other countries.
It’s just where you said “do you not believe the reasons they tell you?”. I thought you were meaning that there are genuine reasons to support or like Putin’s regime, and that I just wasn’t believing those reasons.
Being anti-war is definitely a good position. Perhaps I shouldn’t have generalised across all of Lemmy.ml and Hexbear to assume that everyone on those instances believes the same things. My perspective has just been based on intolerance I have seen from those instances in the past, e.g. Lemmy.ml mods labelling posts as US propaganda because those posts mentioned that Russia was the aggressor in the Ukraine war.