LW and the tankie triad hold 40% of the monthly active userbase of Lemmy.
Going to lock this. I’ll remove future posts that use the ‘tankie triad’ pejorative. Please keep it to meanwhileongrad or tankjerk, it’s needlessly divisive and we have more than enough posts here bemoaning the tankies.
I won’t say there is zero merit to the claims, obviously, but regardless a lot of you care way too damn much about the choices of others.
The sky is falling in so many ways right now, but Lemmy server distribution just isn’t one of them.
I’m doing my part!
Thank you for choosing well!
As someone fairly new to Lemmy, y’all should just try making informative posts. I see lots of posts exactly like this, but there’s never any substance. What exactly did those instances do to earn their reputation? Start there. I’m close to blocking some communities because the lore just has no entry point so why bother.
Basically:
It helps to adopt the mantra of “block early, block often”. Sometimes you can salvage a community merely by blocking one (or a few) posters/commentors, other times it helps to block the entire community (on PieFed there are additional options beyond merely Subscribed vs. All vs. Local, but on Lemmy you have to jump through all of these hoops, so yeah, blocking helps a ton).
There are occasionally lore posts but people vary SO MUCH in what they consider “good” or not that it is hard to have those conversations without them devolving into shouting matches - unfortunately some people are not content to allow others to have their preferences without things like trolling and brigading and going through someone’s entire comment history and downvoting literally everything they’ve done, etc.
But keep watching, occasionally those lore posts do come up every now and then.
.world is full of assholes who so assume they are right I have had people there make the most rude and egotistical comments on other people from assumptions from sexual orientation to wealth to just threats that when pushed back upon they lock down their belief so hard that they state no evidence could be provided to correct them like a maga style conspiracy theorist and then the mods will delete comments from and ban only the victim as they celebrate keeping their narcissism at peak.
Then the 3 communist communities are that kind of unwilling to waver but more on specifically calling out western authoritarianism while being extra forgiving towards eastern authoritarianism because they think it’s the only alternative and so need to forgive it and block nuance from the conversation to protect ego and faith.
And since it’s primarily political posts that make it to All lots of users have pushed back gotten yelled at and banned from those communities from the obvious chaos of talking politics with people who only interact with their own bubbles.Honestly they are just the oldest communities with members who are the most devout in their faith and don’t communicate well with others. As Lemmy was basically originally a quarantine for the worst users of reddit.
Those 3 instances are the biggest Marxist-aligned instances, either implicitly or explicitly. People taking issue with the stances and positions Marxists have, or Marxism in general, tend to not like them. That’s about it, really.
Check the modlogs of those three communities and note how much of the content that is removed, doesn’t break any rules whatsoever.
They are run by people that have no intent whatsoever to allow free-speech or fair debate.
They deserve to dry up and disappear.
I’ve had my comments removed from Lemmy.world communities that didn’t break the rules, and have not been censored on the Marxist-aligned instances. I could say the same of Lemmy.world, that it seems in my experience to “be run by people that have no intent whatsoever to allow free-speech or fair debate.”
Calling out the Democrats for their participation in the genocide of Palestinians is removed as “misinformation,” and entire instances going against the standard Lemmy.world political line are defederated, preventing “free speech” before it even has a chance to exist.
I don’t think defederation is a bad tool, but I do think using it against large instances and then claiming to be “pro free-speech” is a bit ironic.
You get your shit removed for spreading bullshit misinformation and aggressively trolling people.
Thanks for proving my point.
Every one of your removals is a direct violation clearly stated rules. If they don’t violate the community rules, they violate the instance rules.
Can you explain how what I said is trolling, or misinformation? To be clear, you are calling the comments where I called out known transphobes for their transphobia “breaking the rules,” as well as calling the DNC complicit in the genocide of Palestinians as “misinformation?”
Unsurprisingly, you go on to defend moderators that classify anti-Zionism as anti-semitism, it makes sense that you would consider the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide to be “misinformation.”
ROFL!
thanks for proving my point. I rest my case. I’m going to block you for a while now so as not to have to have uncleared notifications from a troll.
Cool 👍
You did end up helping me make my point about Lemmy.world, so I appreciate that, thanks!
Incorrect. It’s not about the fact that they’re communists. Rather, it’s about their strict nationalistic feelings towards Russia and China. They claim that these regimes are communist (which is incorrect), and thus support any action by these nations. They enable and overlook oppressive actions commited by them, while being quick to point out the oppressive actions of the other countries (which are openly capitalist).
I’ve seen many tankies debate with other people, and they frequently employ tactics used by conspiracy theorists, such as selectively accepting sources, and denouncing everything else as propoganda. I’ve even seen a tankie denounce a news outlet, then use the same outlet in the same thread to argue their point.
I say this as someone who finds Marxism appealing, by the way. So I am in no way (as far as I can tell) biased against these people.
CC: @grazed@lemmy.world
I’ll emphasize what I said, as I believe I already covered what you’re talking about:
People taking issue with the stances and positions Marxists have, or Marxism in general, tend to not like them.
Marxists in general tend to critically support Russia’s opposition to US Hegemony (and no further than that), and support “AES” (Actually Existing Socialism) countries like the PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Not a single Marxist believes Russia post-USSR is Socialist, though the vast majority of Marxists do believe the PRC is Socialist. Exceptions include the Peruvian Marxist-Leninist-Maoists (not to be confused with Marxism-Leninism Mao Zedong Thought, which is Marxism-Leninism under Mao but does not see Mao’s contributions as universally applicable), or Trotskyists.
I think you’d better understand the points Marxists make if you spent some time trying to actually understand their viewpoints, instead of misframing them in this manner. What, for example, do you find appealing about Marxism that stands in contradiction to the actual stances Marxists hold, not your misrepresentations of them?
I had no idea using .world was a bad thing tbh, I just made a backup on another instance in case I lost access. Guess I’ll swap to using it full time.
It’s not bad. If you check the modlogs of most of the people crying about it, you’ll find that many of them are either banned, or have had their shit removed for being debate trolls.
There is a lot of “free speech for me, not for thee” people around here, as they stir up shit in .world and then run to their instances where anyone that disagrees with them is banned. Then they accuse .world of bias.
Can you explain this to me in very simple terms? What’s the problem with .world? When I signed up I was told it was just the most broad, sort of “default” instance. What’s wrong with it? Is there one with a larger user base I should be on instead?
Lemmy.world has an overwhelmingly “US Democratic Party” slant, politically, as far as mods and admins tend to lean. As a consequence, it often censors criticism of the DNC from the Left, and is defederated from instances it disagrees with politically.
I dunno, man. I’m pretty new to the whole fediverse stuff. I just learned about modlogs from this thread here, so obviously what I say is not super well-informed on the topic. But looking at the modlog someone linked below, most of the stuff I’m seeing removed are actually the exact opposite. I see comments removed because they’re calling other people tankies. I’m seeing stuff removed because it’s “horseshoe theoretisizing, bad-faith”. Then a bunch of people indirectly advocating violence.
I’ve never been a mod of anything, and a lot of this looks like stuff that if it were up to me I’d leave. But I don’t really see any evidence that .world “has an overwhelmingly “US Democratic Party” slant, politically”. As far as there is any ideological basis behind the mod actions, it seems to be more unaligned leftist than anything else.
Again, though, I’m very new to this and did not do anything close to what I would describe as a thorough search.
Well noted, and for the record- I don’t blindly support everything .world does. There are always exceptions to the rule. So it’s not my intent to make a blanket statement exonerating any and all behavior from the admin/moderation teams that make up lemmy.world.
It’s just been my observation of the parties involved on the subject after having been on lemmy for quite some time. There’s enough evidence in the logs to support most of what I’m saying to be accurate, but it’s not infallibly empirical.
So… I’d say, when in doubt- take a look at the content of character of the one making the complaint either via comment history or modlogs. You’ll see either trustworthy- but extremely biased people, untrustworthy- and extremely biased people, and everything in-between.
But at the end of the day, after all is said… it’s still better than Reddit.
So, welcome in!
Check the modlogs and show me one example of a mod removing something critical of the DNC, that didn’t break the rules. There is TONS of shit on .world that is critical of the DNC from the perspective of the left. YOU have posted quite a bit of tit yourself, so stop the bullshit.
In contrast, go ahead and check the modlogs of .ml and note how the ADMINS- not the mods (which are powerless there) remove shit every day they demonstrably break no rules whatsoever- because its Critical of china/russsia.
The hypocrisy is mind-blowing.
Check my modlog, I was permabanned from Political Memes for calling out the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide (with sources), then asking the mods how that broke the rules, which angered them into banning me. I was also temp-banned from ask lemmy for calling out a known transphobe, which the mod defended as “aggressive misinterpretation” on my end (despite the history of that poster’s transphobia). I also got permabanned from tankiejerk for giving a nuanced opinion on Socialism from a Marxist perspective, when the post gave an unclear definition.
So no, in my experience, Lemmy.world is filled with censorship, on top of outright defederation from the major Marxist instances. Explain to me how it is “free speech” to create an echo chamber that aligns with the US status quo.
Finally, I am not a mod nor an admin of Lemmy.ml. I don’t remove comments or posts. Regardless of how Lemmy.ml is run internally, I have access to far more types of speech through federation, that those on Lemmy.world are deemed not allowed to even see in the first place.
Here it is.
Looks to me your shit was rightfully removed for directly accusing the DNC of actually being the ones committing genocide.
I can’t say for sure what went on between you and them behind closed doors, but you were spreading agenda-based misinformation. I’d have removed your shit too.
Now note how much anti-democratic content still remains there. Then ask yourself what’s different between that content, and the bullshit you posted.
Then go ahead and look at the shit the children that run .ml remove.
Arming and supporting Israel in their genocide against Palestinians so that the US can secure its economic interests in the region is well-documented. Unsurprisingly, you go on to defend moderators that classify anti-Zionism as anti-semitism, it makes sense that you would consider the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide to be “misinformation.” Seems to me that you’re just a fan of Zionism, given how hard you bat to defend it.
How does one go about figuring out this information? I’ve seen no evidence of censorship, but I also don’t really know what it would look like. I do I learn an instance has been defederated.
As a side note, we need to come up with a MUCH more simplified way to teach people about the fediverse if we’re ever going to get a large enough userbase. This shit is very complicated and confusing compared to more mainstream social media.
I’ve never had my criticism of the American democratic party removed nor my leftist views. All I’ve seen get removed are posts and comments showing support of Luigi Mangione (in the context of killing the wealthy). And the instances in question that world has defederated are lemmygrad (which if the name isn’t a big enough hint is a Leninist instance where they praise the USSR and China, hate anything western and ban anyone disagreeing with them) and Hexbear (who are politically adjacent to Lemmygrad but were banned by most instance because they were always brigading other instances and being generally annoying).
The only reason the other person is bringing up the defederation as a negative is because he ideologically agrees with those two instances. You can decide for yourself whether to value his opinion or not.
There are modlogs for all instances. Check them and you’ll see that you are being lied to. You’re right. .world doesn’t censor things that don’t violate the rules. And there is nothing at all in the rules that state you cannot criticize the DNC.
In fact, the person that’s bullshitting you, posts criticism there and is not censored. There’s TONS of criticism of democrats in .world. In fact it’s about 50% or the political content there.
Most of the people that cry about .world are either banned or have been temp banned many times for trolling and violating the actual rules of the instance. Not disagreeing.
That’s what .ml does.
Where do you go to see the modlogs?
This will get to started. From there, you can search by mod, user, reason, etc….
Each interface should have a link somewhere that directs you to the logs.
Wow! Yikes! Does certainly seem like the mods like to remove and ban people a lot. A lot of what I’m seeing on there is for comments that while I don’t personally agree, don’t really seem like they should be removed. I’m not trying to make a judgement about their personal politics, but they are certainly making their own subjective decisions about a lot of things that should really be left to the wider community…
Just interacting with it and word of mouth, really. You can check federation, or scroll the drama communities, but at that point it becomes very “tryhard” for social media.
Please do!
I left lemmy.world because of how they dealt with the piracy thing and how they blocked instances
How did they deal with piracy? And why block instances
They block the piracy community here because they’re scared of IP laws, and blocking instances is typically done if the instance is a serious problem, like grad and hexbear with their insufferable trolls who simp for autocracy and think they’ll be the vanguard party.
They tended fo defederate from instances too easily and they defederated from the piracy instance which is dbzer0 or something similar to that
They eventually backtracked on defederating from the piracy instance but I don’t like that they made that decision in the first place
Commenting to come back
The solution is so easy, we just need a quickly digestible post that can be posted to Reddit and be immediately grokked. I propose the following: (hem, hem)
- You there, Canadian! Go to lemmy.ca!
- You there, Britannian! Go to feddit.uk!
- You there, Germanian! Go to feddit.org or discuss.tchncs.de!
- You there, Denmarkian! Go to feddit.dk!
- You there, Franconian! Go to jlai.lu!
- You there, Swedonian! Go to feddit.nu!
- You there, Australian! Go to aussie.zone!
- You there, Mid-Westian! Go to midwest.social!
- and so forth…
I really think it will drive up the numbers without any confusion
I have been saying this for years. We need themed instances. People keep wanting to make general purpose Lemmy instances, then wonder why everyone ends up on the de facto main instance. Somebody open sportslemmy.sports or fedimusic.song and you’ll start getting folks 1. tripping over the sign-up process less and 2. actually spreading out.
You could probably send most americans to midwestsocial
It’s Brit/Briton and German, fyi.
Speak not to me in the low-tongue, Arcanian!
There is also another German instance discuss.tchncs.de by Milan Ihl. I migrated here when feddit.de’s admin disappeared and feddit.org didn’t exist yet. I’m pretty happy so far, Milan is doing a good job. Only once (that I noticed) his Hetzner server went down for a few hours, but thanks to the status page it was at least obvious and he also fixed it quickly.
You there, the Australian! Go to aussie.zone!
Du där, svenne! Gå till feddit.nu
Eh ! Toi, le Franco ! Viens sur jlai.lu !
You there, Dane! Go to feddit.dk!
No love for dbzer0? We’re one of the few leftist instances that won’t become Tankie because we’re anarchists who can’t stand authoritarian bootlickers.
edit: im a dummy
If .world ever defeds .ml, dbzer0 is going to be the next designated “tankie” instance.
I haven’t seen anything from dbzer0, from their users or admin/mod behaviour that indicates that to be the case.
They won’t be the ones doing the designating.
If they exhibited tankie behaviour they’d already be designated a tankie instance, but they don’t and so people don’t designate them tankies.
Lol, they do exhibit “tankie behavior” though, they’re to the left of the DNC.
Being left of the DNC doesn’t make people tankies. In most peoples minds, tankies are pro-authoritrian and lick the boots of China, NK, and are symapthatic with Russias imperialistic invasion of Ukraine. I’m pretty sure anarchists outright hate this, and I’ve never seen dbzer0 users or their mods have these views.
Being left of the DNC doesn’t make people tankies.
Ask 10 people what makes someone a tankie and you’ll get 20 definitions, none of which will actually be how any of those people use the word in practice. Being left of the DNC is absolutely enough to get you branded a tankie.
In most peoples minds, tankies are pro-authoritrian and lick the boots of China, NK, and are symapthatic with Russias imperialistic invasion of Ukraine.
See? By this definition, none of the existing “tankie triad” would even count as tankies, but they get the label anyway, because ultimately it just means people to the left of the DNC.
You’re one up from the bottom on pizza box guy in the first panel.
I’d say this is SJW erasure but I think we’re like #3 largest instance and we’re still small enough it’s fine but probably shouldn’t actively encourage more people to sign up here.
Welp, I’m stupid. It’s 2 am, I should sleep.
I missed it too, at first. Probably because I look for the lowercase dbzer0 with the numeric on the end.
You’re the second last one.
Fuck I can’t read, its almost 2 am. I need to sleep.
Wait wait, I will invoke them.
Hasan
I had been browsing without an account since Reddit banned third party apps. After a few months of testing the waters I had applied for a few tech focused instances because I thought that would be fitting since it is my career. I got rejected so I just stuck with the one that approved and let me comment on posts.
Lol interesting, tbh I’ve never got rejected on fedi yet, so I suppose those instances were super small? Maybe for closed circle of people or something like that?
Yeah, to be fair I didn’t know what I was doing really. They were smaller and specialized so I am guessing they are pretty tight knit and selective.
I get that people enjoy bashing the “tankie triad” at every opportunity and all, but bringing them up in this circumstance doesn’t really make sense. It’s not like people are flocking to them in droves, you only end up there if you really want to. Lemm.ee and sh.itjust.works are both bigger than lemmy.ml at this point and I wouldn’t call the 500 or so MAUs on Lemmygrad a problematic over-concentration of users. That’s less than 1% of the user base. Hexbear’s recent MAU stats are hard to find but even if we’re generous and say it’s 2k that’s like 3% of the user base.
Lemmy.world alone is like 33% of the user base, that is the real problem here.
hexbear doesn’t seem to have a nodeinfo.
I see way way more people complaining about tankies then I do actual tankies and I’m on one of the “tankie” instances. I usually just browse /all though so maybe that’s why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I miss January when I was seeing more tankies and less libs to be entirely honest.
Something something “they turned off their bots to cool off” or whatever they said when people took a break from the internet when Trump won.
Lemmy.world alone is like 33% of the user base, that is the real problem here.
Ugh, you’d think that number would be lower after their handling of the luigi talk. Also, hexbear has 2k users? I think I could almost name the ones I see regularly, and that’s definitely lower than 30 or so.
Hexbear is more self-sufficient and thus most users stay on local or Grad. It was its own thing for years before it ever started federating, and as a result is self-sustainable.
What happened with luigi and .world?
They claimed the rules in their home nation needed them to delete almost all pro Luigi posts and comments. In any case they did delete most Luigi content. I deleted my Lemmy.world account after that, I’m not here for censorship
Damn time to swap instances, thank you
Damn I missed all that drama completely (though I do tend to avoid political subs). That’s really disappointing.
What, really? You take a week off.
A week off Lemmy? Probably not
Hexbear used to have like 1.5k back in the day I think and I assumed they’d grown a bit, but I couldn’t find any recent data from a cursory web search so could be way off base there.
To the tankies: please don’t spread across more instances. I prefer that y’all stay easy-to-block.
Without mod protection, they are always getting destroyed with votes anyway
I see some on Mander.xyz and Slrpnk.net 😭
I feel attacked
Already have:-).
Also, Discuss.Online is an absolutely awesome Lemmy instance, located in the USA.
Beehaw on the other hand is a bit problematic - I love reading posts from it but it definitely has caveats that people may want to be aware of to consider before making it their actual home. Especially how extremely old its software is, and how it has defederated from Lemmy.World and thus cut itself off from the majority of content available on Lemmy. It’s a place I like to visit often but not actually live there.
Meanwhile I’m absolutely in love with the features available on PieFed like categories of communities (user customizable and shareable) andaggregation of all comments across all communities for cross-posts.:-)
Beehaw is somewhat closed off, but it’s decent. It definitely seems to run into issues with its all feed occasionally only showing beehaw posts, and what I see there is a bit more defeatist and down-beat than what I see on some other instances. I’ve been using slrpnk more lately to have a less depressing front page, but they’re both decent jumping off points.
Part of using the fediverse, to me, is looking at it from different angles. I don’t see any reason to stick to just one account.
PieFed seems interesting to me and like a better design.
I think I would rather move further from the forum style social media though.Totally agreed about Beehaw, I love having access to it but would never want my main account to be registered there.
how extremely old its software is
Working on a Lemmy stack upgrade, but the ‘bare metal’ method leaves a lot to be desired. It is not plug and play.
Those using Mbin are trying to do our part. We’re a small percentage, but we’re here.
I’m still kinda mourning kbin.social. It’s where I got started
Same here. I hope Ernest is okay, regardless if he ever brings Kbin back. He started something that fortunately others could pick up and run with.
@Rhaedas @Skua @Sunshine yeah man being lead developer and managing a public server is too much for anyone at any time, let alone at the height of the #redditMigration
Another OG kbinaut here (remember when we were all trying to figure out an appropriate demonym?). Ernest seems to be quite well! He’s got a relatively active blog. He recently moved closer to family in the Netherlands and has been enjoying seeing the sights. The about page of the blog also expresses a similar sentiment to yours:
Unfortunately, due to personal circumstances, I had to step away from actively working on Kbin and leave its further development to the community. Nevertheless, I am happy to see the project thriving, with a dedicated group of users and contributors who continue to push its vision forward.
Great news!
That’s why I only want to get emotionally invested in open-source projects because then I know that the code will live on.
Racoon is another project that was saved by the community.
Yeah, I’ve seen over the years projects that were good, but for whatever reasons the creator stopped updating it, and followers would request to no avail for them to release the code so it could continue.
Do any of the Mbin instances take the .ee approach and leave it up to the user to block instead of defederation?
We love you for it. Please keep up the good work!
I think we should change our strategy here. Let the currently popular instances be popular, but instead create a site to suggest lemmy instances and then randomize the order they show up in the suggestions.
Don’t try and pull people who already have accounts from the existing instances to build the smaller instances. Try and direct the incoming growth to the smaller instances, instead.
Aim for growth instead of cannibalism.
The issue from the beginning was that people wanted to pick where there were already discussions. .world had already started growing a lot more, so new users gravitated to that. As drama happened, there was some splintering, but since you can’t take your history and account with you, there was also resistance to move. What you suggest was discussed during the first big migration to the Fediverse for Lemmy, but it takes time to put things in place and it was already too late to really fix the lopsidedness of who was where.
It’s still a good idea for new users, maybe instead of randomizing have a way to categorize the types of instances and their rules, so people go where they’ll be the happiest. The best way to fix the problem though is to come up with a secure and privacy protecting way to fully move a user from instance to instance. Good luck with that.
The issue on the beginning was that all the instances were way too restrictive on worldview or goal. It makes sense to put communities on them, but it doesn’t make sense to join them as users.
The 2 instances that were aimed at the general public, world and ee grew to be the 1st and 2nd largest ones…
Try and direct the incoming growth to the smaller instances, instead.
That’s why I exclusively post on smaller instances from now on.
